Give and take is not fair play
Give a thing and take it back
God’ll ask you where is that
You’ll say you don’t know
This is Zoe’s response to Bloom’s “Give me back that potato, will you?” As Don Gifford correctly states, Zoe’s verse is a conventional schoolchildren’s giving or exchange rhyme:
We should establish the chronology – that the rhyme predated Ulysses.
The earliest form
The general formula dates back in English at least until the sixteenth century, but different wording. The standard “proverb” reads: “Give a thing and take a thing, to wear the Devil’s gold ring”, and was associated with children as long ago as 1571, in John Bridges’s Sermon, preached at Paules Crosse on the Monday in Whitson weeke:
This traditional version is still recorded in the standard proverb sources today.
A Dublin alternative
Proverbs are very susceptible to alteration and adaptation, and this is precisely what happens in Ireland to the sober original of “Give a thing and take a thing”. Joyce’s version is more vigorous: “Give a thing and take it back / God’ll ask you where is that / You’ll say you don’t know / God’ll send you down below”.
The rhyme was well-enough known in Joyce’s day to be used in a debate in the Seanad Éireann in 1926. The British Government was challenged with withdrawing in 1926 guarantees to working people made under the Railways Act of 1924:
But earlier than this, at the end of the nineteenth century, the rhyme had been discussed in Notes and Queries (1894: 24 March, p. 235), by “W. A. Henderson, Dublin”:
The rhyme continued to be heard in Dublin and elsewhere in Ireland (see the Opies, above), and is cited in Eilís Brady’s All in! All in! a selection of Dublin children’s traditional street-games with rhymes and music (Baile Átha Claith: 1975):
A literary sidelight
It appears that the original proverb underwent a parallel transformation in the world of book and book-collectors. There are many rhymes written into books to reinforce ownership and to warn off potential book-thieves. One echoes the children’s exchange rhyme cited above, and was frequently cited around 1900.2 Again the earliest reference comes from the scholarly review Notes and Queries (1899: 19 August, p. 153).
The writer continues with a version closer to that repeated by Joyce:
The original proverbial rhyme “Give a thing and take a thing, to wear the Devil’s gold ring” dates back at least to the third quarter of the sixteenth century in England. By the later years of the nineteenth century it had developed at least two variants, one a warning of the dire consequences of book-theft, and another a children’s rhyme found in Dublin and elsewhere in Ireland enjoining similar punishments on the child who gives something to another and then comes along later and demands it back. Perhaps Joyce was aware of both variants.
Senator Thomas Farren, in Railways
(Existing Officers and Servants) Bill, 1926 – third stage: Seanad Éireann
Debate (Thursday, 10 June 1926: Vol. 7,
section 2 p. 348). See http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0007/S.0007.192606100006.html.
Joyce's Allusions >